Posts Tagged ‘bailout’

The latest “good idea” to come out of DC regarding solving the housing crisis and credit crisis would be to allow a government fund to buy troubled mortgages from the banks.  Funding would be done jointly from Uncle Sam and Vulture/Hedge Funds.  Thus, rewarding those entities for taking the risk and effort to recover value and make fortunes on the backs of the troubled homeowners!!!!

No one is a bigger capitalist and supporter of the free markets than me, but the perversity of the ideas coming out of DC and celebrated by those still with cash is absurd.

A Wall Street Journal article this week indicated that these funds would by the mortgages at $0.05 to $0.20 on the dollar of “face value” thus putting a market value and theoretically some liquidity into a market that has had a dearth of players (folks willing to buy or sell at a mutually agreed upon price).  The thought is that by adding government dollars and some guarantees against loss to these vultures and speculators, that things would then get better for all!

This is inane!  Once again, the most aggressive investors/institutions will be treated as rolyalty and “protected” by those suffering under situations created to make money from them!

The best idea still and one that I have discussed in the past and will continue to support is the following:

Allow the borrowers to buy back their outstianding mortgages and outstanding credits at the same rate as Uncle Sam is proposing they be sold to Vultures.  Provide government financing and guarantees to allow the refinancing of the principal and accrued interest at “pennies on the dollar” to those suffering, with deferrals on payments until income levels have rebounded to facilitate repayment of the reduced amounts.

Why should the Government entice vultures to buy on the distress of the public, and then profit on their further distress?  Why not have the Government be the instrument for settlement of the sources of distress?  Why not have the individual families receive the benefit from their own recovery?  Reduce the levels of sources of profit to 3rd parties and institutions?  Foster a benevolent solution, rather than dumping the paper in the hands of vultures and collection agencies to further harass those facing hardship and eviction?

Enough raping of the populace by the Wall Street Titans and Banking Giants!!!  We have see that quarterly profits and earnings for shareholders rewarded by temporarily higher stock prices is a recipe for disaster!

A change is needed. A reason for hope!  Let us hope the new administration sees the light and makes positive things happen for our society!

Also check out http://alphainventions.com/ a great website for all new posts!

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The New York Stock Exchange reduces its listing requirements from $25 million in minimum market capitalization to $15 million. They call it temporary, but how long is “temporary”?

The new Secretary of the US Treasury Master Geithner and boss of the boss of the IRS intentionally underpaid his taxes for a series of 4 straight years, and when he was caught on two of the years, properly paid for only two of the four years. Only when he was in the nomination process to be Secretary did he make good to the IRS for the balance he underpaid. (Oh, by the way, he must have perjured himself under oath in saying “Oh, I forgot.” But that is a story for another day.)

Not to beat on Master Geithner but, Master Geithner, even before earning the Senate’s blessing to carry on the irrational and inconsistent policies of the Goldman Sachs Governmental Programs (aka Paulson and Friends), has begun a new WAR with China. He has explicitly stated verbally and in writing that China is manipulating their currency. Meaning that He and Our New Fearless Leader President Obama believe that the Yuan is undervalued relative to the dollar, as China has stepped in over the past year and stopped its long-term appreciation against the dollar. Any Econ 101 C grader or better knows that it China did not brindle its Yuan, then the value of their US $ investments would fall, their appetite for US Treasuries (at a time when we desperately need them to buy $3 trillion USD of our bonds) would collapse. Their banks would become troubled and their economy, rather than being on a growth mode and trying to stabilize would be thrown into a state of chaos, not dissimilar to that of out own. WHY WOULD HE TRY TO TAKE THEM DOWN WITH US? WHAT IS THE BENEFIT?

China is considered one of the global leaders in capitalism!!! With the recent and further steps in US Socialization and Nationalization of Companies, Industries and Spreading of Wealth, China is better looking than we are. (Unless the mirror we use is warped, fogged and scratched!)

NY State’s new Senator to the US Congress is a Democrat with Strong Republican traits (oh, I almost wrote “taints”.) A committed member of the NRA, advent opponent of gun control, an anti-fan of the GLBT and others groups, and an ardent “non-compromiser”. At least she we know she won’t be toeing any party lines as she goes in!

Russia can shut down its gas pipelines supplying Central and Western Europe and hold them at ransom, as we saw over the past two weeks.

Unofficial underemployment in the US is at an all time high in excess of 20% currently and projected to hit 28% before this thing turns.

Detroit will stop building and designing cars for car buyers but instead to please their political owners and our new industry/political czars or dictators.

After the worst year in the stock markets’ history, the US markets continue to plunge in the first three weeks of the new year. So much for the optimism from a new administration and “Hope and Change”.

Mortgage rates on the conforming 30 year have increased almost 0.5% even though Uncle Sam and his family members have been talking about moving it lower. (What, are they now powerless? Or are their capabilities limited or muted?)

Please help me out. Add some additional ideas, as I know I have only touched on the tip of an iceberg.

Also check out http://alphainventions.com/ a great website for all new posts!

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In his article, which you can read at http://www.forbes.com/manufacturing/forbes/2009/0202/031.html?story_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fforbes%2F2009%2F0202%2F031.html&username=MoneyAssistant&email=dijana.howard%40gmail.com&title=General+Manager

you will note that he is very optimistic about the future of the industry. He firmly believes and I agree with him that 10-15 years from now, there will be more auto companies, rather than less. He believes that though the changes are traumatic, the ultimate outcome will be beneficial. The future industry will be stronger, more diverse, offer a greater variation of vehicle with various energy sources, and greater flexibility in environmental compatibility.

I agree, we have much to look forward to. After, we get through the current economic storms.

Citi yesterday agreed to “cramdowns” for resetting mortgage amounts and rates for troubled borrowers.

Politicians all across America declared that this was a breakthrough, etc.

One would not think it at all surprising though, given the $45 billion pumped into Citi by our great Uncle, and our Uncle’s willingness to absorb more than $300 billion of future Citi losses.

Socialism clearly has some benefits. With a tight leash (like Citi is on), the master can dictate many things.

It is amazing of late to watch the news wires and see the number of successful business people who are committing suicide due to the “Red Plague” and its economic chaos.

Yesterday, we read the Steven Good of the Sheldon Good Real Estate Auction house committed suicide.

The day before we read that Adolf Merckle, one of Germany’s wealthiest men, committed suicide as his business conglomerate began having finance problems brought on the the credit crisis and the global economic slow down.

There have been hedge fund managers in the US and England who have given up hope and have left their families, as well as Rene-Thierry Magon de la Villehuchet, a private investor and aristocrat who trusted Madoff with his family fortune and the fortunes of his clients.

All these men have been successful, powerful, professionals with years of experience, as well as diverse skill sets.

The question is “Is the situation so dire as there is no escape, no hope, no solution?” We should hope and pray not.

If these men, at apexes in their careers and industries, have no hope, what about you and me? What about those folks being forced from their homes? The unemployed, the folks with credit way over their heads, the people whose life is more of a daily struggle than a “success story”.

Each should be thankful. Irregardless of how dire seems appear, there are always solutions, answers and ways of resolving things, without “escaping to the next world”.

This will get better, they always do. This time is no different in that regard. There will be opportunities ahead. Staying alive is important to future success!

Today’s Wall Street Journal had a small article buried within the paper which once again demonstrated how screwed up our American Government/Financial Systems are.

See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123094029211850265.html

Fannie Mae announced on Monday that it is raising its fees to lenders for guaranteeing or buying certain mortgages. The article notes that the fees will increase to 3.25% of the loan amounts after April 1st, from the current 1.25%.

At a time when our Federal government is spending billions to buy up mortgage paper with the effect of lowering market rates for conforming mortgages, the two agencies now under conservatorship have the gaul to raise the fees. This has the same impact of adding 2 points to a mortgage or stepping the rates back up.

The Federal Housing Agency spokesperson has stated that they will review the public’s objections to the rate increase.

Crazy, but believable…………… Help us Barney Frank!!!!


Congrats to Chip for taking such a dire subject and injecting a sense of humor and a bit of hope.

From our perspective at MoneyAssistant.org there is a ton of pain ahead. In addition to expected spikes in unemployment and further underemployment, tightened credit and higher interest rates, and expected deficits at all levels of government, housing and other asset values are continuing lower.

With an expected $2 trillion of consumer debt defaults over the coming year, many of us will either be in various modes of workouts with our lenders, creditors and governments.

There is much to fear out there in the business community. This is evidenced by continued severe tightness of credit markets, recent bond issues by some fairly solid companies at rates between 13% and 16%, the bond markets pricing in default levels of 12%+ (more than 1 in 10 large companies are expected to go bust), and corporate valuations that are at 60% of values just 12 months back.

Thankfully, Uncle Sam has put bailouts, restructurings, recapitalizations, and HOPE into the current language of our economic chaos (I refer to it as the Red Plague.) If they will expand the circle from Wall Street, Banks, Detroit, to include Main Street and its small businesses and the consumers/homeowners, we may all survive and be in better shape at the end of this ordeal.

See https://guruatmoneyassistant.wordpress.com for additional comments and thoughts.
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More on Economy
Read the Article at HuffingtonPost


Great article.
Lots of risk and parallels, but fortunately (hopefully) different due to FDIC protection of depositors and fast government intervention.

See additional thoughts at https://guruatmoneyassistant.wordpress.com
Read the Article at HuffingtonPost

Two Wall Street Journal columns jump from their website today.
After Dow’s Collapse, Guarded Hope

After the U.S. stock market’s third-worst year in more than a century, many investors are hoping for a turnaround in 2009. But considering the pain that has continued for more than a year, they are reluctant to bet on it.

Stimulus Versus Recession

The U.S. is preparing massive efforts to battle the twin threats of deep recession and deflation in 2009. The results will affect the investment climate for years to come.

These two observations are right on target, but the impact and implications so grand, that the folks at the WSJ should be shouting from the building tops in Manhattan, Greenwich, The Hamptons, and DC.

First, it should not be understated but the International Monetary Fund had estimated financial security losses in the range of $1.4 trillion as of this past October. To date, US institutions have only written off less than $800 billion! The IMF estimates were before the $50 billion evaporation of Madoff assets and the severe financial market declines of late October and November.

Additionally, there have been several estimates in the area of $2 trillion for the total losses to be expected by the inability of the “two pillars” of homeowners/credit users and small businesses to obtain any lifelines quickly and without “strings” of steel to further sink them. The lifelines are not appearing on Uncle Sam’s drawing boards at the moment, which means that we should not count on them in the near future. Uh, oh!!

Current LIBOR based mortgage rates are in the area of 2.25% currently for up to $2 million!!! The rates are less than the average yield of a local CD for a few months. Fixed rate conforming mortgages are at less than 5% for 30 years. We can expect mortgage rates to further decline as the Fed continues to intervene in the market for Fannie and Freddie securities. (They have billions of $ in their pockets to manipulate the market and lower the rates further.) Unfortunately, other than the variable LIBOR loans, jumbo fixed mortgages are still in the range of 8% or so. Because the government is ignoring this sector of the market, there has been only increases in the rates as the riskiness of the credits have increased.

Banks are demanding more collateral, rather than less. In a time of declining asset values, with collateral worth less, fewer and fewer are able to meet the stricter lending requirements. Where is Super Paulson and our Hero Bernacke when we need them???????? Will HOPE and CHANGE help? Or should we turn to God as our only salvation?

Today’s WSJ made the analogy of an individual escaping from a very painful marriage. The journalist stated that this individual would be very likely to resist remarrying. The journalist paralleled the experience to a stock investor during 2008 and their fear of buying stocks in 2009. I thought this very appropriate.

In a world of great interconnection, with great uncertainties, the need for faith and confidence in systems and governments, unified and coordinated efforts are crucial. Given all we have seen from our government over the past year and years, can we have confidence? Should we have hope?

Given the way America has been raped and brutalized by Wall Street, can we have faith in the Heroes of Capitalism to save us?

Please share your thoughts and ideas………

According to a press release, “The Federation of Small Businesses is . . . calling on the Government, the banks, local councils and consumers to play their part during the year by providing support to small businesses in fighting regulation, accessing finance and maintaining cash flow to buck the increasing trend of business closures.”

The Federation for Small Businesses needs to do more than just issue a press release.

The government has financed the banks, protected Wall Street and back stopped the auto industry, but government and our political and financial leaders have ignored the needs and potential catastrophic impact of the small business failure.

Limiting interest rates is just one limited step. Encouraging banks to lend, promoting a major SBA program similar to “HOPE for Homes”, encouraging lenders to extend credit rather than reduce amounts available, are but a few of the many steps they could take.

The FSB is to be commended, but at the same time must call upon the communities across the US to mobilize and lobby Uncle Sam to work to protect our small businesses, their employees, and the core of the American Economy.

As a small business owner suffering from a reduction in income levels due to the recession, I am very familiar with the shortage of credit for small businesses. It impacts the small businesses directly, as credit cards and other signature loans are their liquidity lifeblood. Also, customers and clients rely on credit to purchase services and products and with credit levels being reduced and credit needs not being fulfilled, consumption and purchase levels are down significantly.

Much comes back to the Federal Government and their missteps regarding the TARP and providing capital to our banks. One would think that the government bailout would have helped the small businesses indirectly, but then again, nothing has been as “one would have thought” over the past 6 months.

Today’s Wall Street Journal cites the anticipation of looming “mortgage cram-downs”, as a result of the failure of government’s steps to cease the increase in foreclosures.

The article notes that there are 7.5 million homes underwater currently and that foreclosures are expected to exceed 8.1 million over the next four years!!!! It also notes that Congress was hoping to help 400,000 homeowners through its latest program, “Hope for Homeowners”, but only 357 have applied for the program to date.

Sounds like one of the pillars we discussed yesterday on this blog is still not being secured!!! Unless action is taken, we will see the Red Plague sweep the homeowners and consumers downriver, like the banks and Wall Street firms were washed away this past year.

Unfortunately, the free market and refinancing will not solve the liquidity crunch paralyzing the homeowner/consumer pillar and the small business pillar.

Some insight and real hope are desperately needed. And fast!

Now that the government has bailed out Wall Street, the Banks, the insurance companies, the auto makers, and countless others, the real question is “Is it enough?” What needs to be done to get our economy back on track? Are we on the verge of being “back on track”?

The latest Forbes magazine refers to the “Depression on the Fourth Quarter” and is cautiously optimistic about improvements possibly already underway. They refer to their Chirps Index and are hopeful.

See http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0112/037.html

The index referred to above is a great index. Its optimism is refreshing and encouraging. We all hope that things get better from here.

After all the government assistance and economic support, there are two pillars of our economy which are still faltering. One pillar is comprised of the over-leveraged homeowners and consumers who have no option to refi their mortgages at today’s attractive rates due to excessive declines in the values of their homes or in their credit scores.

The other pillar that has seen no support from political or economic leadership is the small business owners. Millions of small businesses were decimated in the Mini Depression of the 4th Q, due to revenue fall offs of 10-90% and the drawing down or elimination of available credit by those “saved” by Uncle Sam. Many of these millions of small businesses, employing between 1 and 10 employees are on the verge of closing their doors, filing personal and corporate bankruptcy and becoming wards of the economic state. As the US economy and its economic growth over the past 20 years has been powered by our small businesses, their mass genocide due to the economic environment will be costly and painful.

There is an estimated $2 trillion of potential defaults and write-offs that could result from further deterioration of the remaining two pillars.

Hopefully, new leadership in DC will force the hand of the beneficiaries of the government’s handouts and cheap money to assist (1) the homeowners and consumers and (2)the small businesses of America.

If these two pillars falter then the “Chirps” the new index is hearing are just echoes of chirps from the past.

If the world is literally flooded with dollars, why is it near impossible to refinance a home or refinance and restructure outstanding consumer credit?

Merrill Lynch is offering a Libor based adjustable rate mortgage for up to $2,000,000 for the current rate of 2.375% with NO POINTS!!!! How many are applying? Very few.

Why? Loan to Value requirements have dropped by on average 20% while appraised home values have tumbled as well. Additionally, if the home is located in a state where the values are declining, then the penalty box of “declining market” is applied and the LTV limits are reduced further.

Credit card companies continue to reduce available credit. Analysts expect that the US will see credit line reductions of $2 trillion dollars in 2009. They also expect credit card rates to continue to sky rocket rather than decline in parallel with the Libor, prime and the Fed funds rate.

Hence, headlines may be deceptive.

With the further expected declines in employment levels and compensation, as well as further tightening of credit and increases in cost of consumer credit, there likely is significantly more pain to come for the consumer-class and homeowner-class ignored to this point buy the bailout plans and liquidity programs of the wealthy rulers in DC and their Wall Street financiers.

Happy Holidays!!!

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With credit lines continuing to be cut, banks not negotiating outstanding loans, and new loans only being extended to those who do not need the money, there is but ONE QUESTION: WHERE IS THE MONEY?

How can $340 billion have not have any impact? How can Paulson and Congress let the greed of the banks and institutions destroy whatever remaining confidence Americans had in the government?

As Dr. Michael Savage has said, the US has just witnessed the greatest legal theft of $340 billion in the history of the world. The only beneficiaries have been the creditors, shareholders and CEOs of those institutions receiving the $. Please show me examples of the Americans and Main Street who have benefited!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paulson, Bernacke, Bush and our favorites Pelosi, Reid, and VP Cheney are all to be blamed. The should be held accountable for the fraud they have perpetuated on the American Taxpayers. We have been duped.

Those without jobs, those who have lost and will lose their jobs and credit, will pay. Pelosi, Reid, Cheney, Bush, Bernacke and Paulson can continue to dance all day until the sun sets and beyond, while we all suffer from the Red Plague they have contributed in spreading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell me your thoughts…………

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The equity markets have recovered more than 20% from their recent lows. Some companies are up as much as 50% or more. The markets generally are six months ahead of the true news, so should we be optimistic? Is the light at the end of the tunnel? Should we be excited about the prospects of $500 billion of government projects and an additional $2 trillion of liquidity?

As noted by Davis Berman on his blog: “As the Wall Street Journal’s MarketBeat noted on Tuesday, the auction on three-month Treasury bills on Monday yielded a mere 0.005 per cent – the lowest yield since 1941. But here’s the really wacky part: Traders noted that the yield on three-month bills dipped into negative territory on Tuesday afternoon, as in below 0 per cent.”  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081209.WBmarkets20081209143427/WBStory/WBmarkets

So great optimism on the equity side of the equation and absolute fear on the side of bond investors……

A friend mentioned today that he heared murmers that gas may go as low as $1 per gallon.  When was the last time we saw that??? What does that mean about our economy???? What will our labor be worth??  What will the price of milk and eggs be?    How bad will the overall global economy have to be to allow gas prices to fall so low???????????  I am afraid to speculate? What do you think???

Will the market retest lows?  Is there sufficient cause for optimism to have the markets hold steady and rise through Inaugeration Day?

Will unemployment continue to rise?  Will housing prices continue to fall?

Will Washington really save Detroit?

Did Washington really agree to absorb approximately $300 billion in losses at Citigroup?

Is this sane or insane?

Help me!!!!! I am confused.  Leave your comments…..

There are some out there who have said, “The American people have spoken, and they have said they do not like GM, Chrysler and Ford autos.”

It is absolutely more accurate to say, “The American people have spoken, and during the past three months demand for new cars has dropped, like a rock.”

The current run rate of new car purchases calculates to the annual removal from the road of approximately 2 million cars per year.  This is the first time that there has been a net decline in autos on the road in the history of the auto!

America has run out of credit.  America has run out of cash.  America is unemployed.

The 2 million car number is very close to the 1.9 million of newly unemployed workers since the start of the year.

Mystery?

If 1.9 million less people are going to work each day, how many less cars are needed?

Please share your thoughts and comments…..

The biggest banks that have received the biggest free giveaway of American taxpayers’ wealth, are now stealing the life blood of every household and the economy and our government is either blessing the theft or ignoring it.  The Red Plague of losses, illiquidity and falling values and prices continues.

Traditionally, interest rates on credit cards were competitive and set based on one’s credit ability, payment history, and market rates.  Today, credit card companies are bumping their rates up to 30+% because they want to.  This is in the face of the 10 year Treasury bond below 3% and the billions in free dollars they have received to stimulate the economy from our dear Uncle Sam.

At these rates, the amounts due will double over less than 3 years. These rates are userious, abusive and immoral.  But, Mz. Nancy and Mr. B Frank ignore the issue.  This is an issue that can not be ignored.

If outragious mortgages are reset, foreclosures abayed, and homeprices attempted to be stabilized to protect the American citizens’ balance sheets and financial solvency, the system will collapse around the explodign levels of consumer debt.

The average American with outstanding balances will get eaten in userious rates and ensuing fees.  Bankruptcy and further financial chaos of the American financial system, banks, Wall Street and Main Street can not be too much further behind.

God help America from the Death Wish of America’s Financial System and Greed (and the Blindness and Ignorance of the regulators tasked with protecting us)!!!!

The biggest banks that have received the biggest free giveaway of American taxpayers’ wealth, are now stealing the life blood of every household and the economy and our government is either blessing the theft or ignoring it.  The Red Plague of losses, illiquidity and falling values and prices continues.

Traditionally, interest rates on credit cards were competitive and set based on one’s credit ability, payment history, and market rates.  Today, credit card companies are bumping their rates up to 30+% because they want to.  This is in the face of the 10 year Treasury bond below 3% and the billions in free dollars they have received to stimulate the economy from our dear Uncle Sam.

At these rates, the amounts due will double over less than 3 years. These rates are userious, abusive and immoral.  But, Mz. Nancy and Mr. B Frank ignore the issue.  This is an issue that can not be ignored.

If outragious mortgages are reset, foreclosures abayed, and homeprices attempted to be stabilized to protect the American citizens’ balance sheets and financial solvency, the system will collapse around the explodign levels of consumer debt.

The average American with outstanding balances will get eaten in userious rates and ensuing fees.  Bankruptcy and further financial chaos of the American financial system, banks, Wall Street and Main Street can not be too much further behind.

God help America from the Death Wish of America’s Financial System and Greed (and the Blindness and Ignorance of the regulators tasked with protecting us)!!!!

Currently, mortgages are traded between banks and financial institutions like (as) securities, generally in large bundles, but still traded.  The current market prices that these trades are taking place at is currently between $0.18 per $1.00 of face loan amount and $0.28 per $1.00.  But yet, if I or you wanted to pay off the mortgage, we would have to pay the face loan amount plus interest.

Here is the BETTER IDEA.  Let the mortgagees (the homeowners) buy back the mortgage at the current market price of the mortgage. Let them buy the mortgage at 18 to 28 cents per dollar of loan amount.  They can thus cancel the loan that the now owe to themselves and they can then refinance that amount with a full recourse loan, rather than a non-recourse loan, or maybe even a loan guaranteed by Uncle Sam.  This would keep people in their homes, allow a fair playing field, and help the banks monetize their balance sheets.

There are several countries that have programs like this (no I am not a genius) and none of them are facing the situation like the great US of A is facing today.  We must use the markets to solve the problem and this does exactly that!

Spread the word!!!  Let me know what you think….

It is a wonderful thing when America’s largest bank gets free money from Uncle Sam so they can increase lending in America, and instead take $7 billion in cash and put that money in China!!!!!!!!!!       What are they thinking!!! Why is the US government and Congress letting US businesss leaders make a joke of the government’s attempt to help Main Street.

Somebody please explain this to me…………………

Is this unbelievable or what?  Those financial institutions not eligible for a part of the free government giveaway of America’s future have devised ways to get in through the back door.  And the government and regulators are welcoming them through the back door!!!!!!!!

Check this out from CNN.com:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Four insurance companies applied Friday to become thrift holding companies and acquire savings and loans, which opens the door for them to seek bailout funds.

Friday was the deadline to apply for funding from the Treasury’s Troubled Asset Relief Program.

Any bank, savings association, bank holding company or savings and loan holding company established and operating in the United States was eligible to apply for some amount of capital from the bailout plan. Insurers and foreign-controlled entities were not included.

The Hartford Financial Services Group, Lincoln National Corp., Genworth Financial Inc. and Aegon NV all submitted applications to become holding companies to the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) on Friday.

If we, you and I, can not walk in through the front door or sneak in through the back door, is there a window we can climb through or get in using a “Mission Impossible” break in move?  Please share your ideas through a comment!

Cities and states are asking for bailouts, the Auto Industry is asking to be saved, the Unemployment Funds in 4 states are seeking Fed support, millions of homeowners are behind and in default, credit card companies are raising their rates to force all but the strongest into a default situation.

The system is suddenly rewarding those that were weeek, foolhardy, or just caught in the chaos fostered by others, and then the system is pushing all the rest into the same abyss!!! Can this end well?  Let me know your thoughts.